{"article":{"id":252,"title":"Exploring the Black Presidential Imaginary: An Interview with Ross Jordan","excerpt":"<p>As Barack Obama&rsquo;s presidency came to close in January, plans for the Obama Presidential Library and the Obama Foundation began circulating in the news. Ross Jordan, a Chicago-based curator, has been thinking about Obama&rsquo;s legacy and the impact of a black presidency for the past several years.</p>\r\n","body":"<p>By ALISON REILLY</p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>As Barack Obama&rsquo;s presidency came to close in January, plans for the Obama Presidential Library and the Obama Foundation began circulating in the news. Ross Jordan, a Chicago-based curator, has been thinking about Obama&rsquo;s legacy and the impact of a black presidency for the past several years.</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>Jordan&rsquo;s Presidential Library Project began in 2015 as a series of &ldquo;Beer Summits&rdquo; at the <a href=\"http://www.chicagogallerynews.com/institutions/chicago-cultural-center--2\">Chicago Cultural Center</a>. Inspired by Obama&rsquo;s gesture in 2009 to invite both Henry Louis Gates and Sergeant James Crowley to the White House to discuss Gates&rsquo; arrest over a beer, Jordan brought together artists, art historians, curators and educators to talk about the potential for Obama&rsquo;s presidential library and the symbol of a black president.</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>The latest iteration of Jordan&rsquo;s project is a group exhibition at the <a href=\"http://www.chicagogallerynews.com/institutions/hyde-park-art-center-hpac\">Hyde Park Art Center</a> featuring work by James Britt, Rashayla Brown, Aisha Cousins, Zachary Fabri, Lamont Hamilton, Billy McGuinness, Shonna Pryor, Deb Sokolow and Nate Young. </em>The Presidential Library Project: Black Presidential Imaginary<em> opens March 26 and is on view through July 2, 2017.</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>I recently sat down with Ross to ask him about the project and his interest in the intersection of art and politics. We discussed what a radical presidential library would look like, the origins of black independent political parties, and the history of popular culture depicting black presidents.&nbsp;</em><em>Here are excerpts from our&nbsp;conversation, which have been edited and condensed.</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><img alt=\"\" data-caption=\"Ross Jordan, the curator of &lt;i&gt;The Presidential Library Project: Black Presidential Imaginary&lt;/i&gt;. Image: Jennifer Iino \" data-rich-file-id=\"1920\" src=\"https://s3.amazonaws.com/chigal/rich/rich_files/rich_files/1920/original/jordan-headshot-credit-jennifer-myxter-iino.jpg\" /></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>Chicago Gallery News: How did the Presidential Library Project begin?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>Ross Jordan:</strong> As I was thinking about Obama&#39;s last term ending, my own interest in politics and art, and presidential libraries and museums, it struck me that there&rsquo;s fourteen presidential libraries but there are not a lot of artists involved with them. I thought what if artists, curators, and staff who work in museums, in archives and deal with history&mdash;what if they populate and produce the library instead of it being politically driven?</p>\r\n\r\n<p>It was an open thought and the first step was: &ldquo;How do I start to think about this and talk about that idea?&rdquo; I said, &nbsp;&quot;What if&nbsp;produce an exhibition?&rdquo; and then I could create the programs that might be at a presidential library, so I started organizing these Beer Summits. I had received funding from the Chicago Cultural Center&rsquo;s curatorial residency program so I was able to host them there.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>The idea of the Beer Summits was to take seriously that event early in Obama&rsquo;s first term when Henry Louis Gates was arrested outside his house in Cambridge. Shortly after that happened Obama called people together and suggested that they needed to have a conversation and make it a nationwide learning moment. This was before Trayvon Martin and before the danger of police interacting with black men had been fully elevated to a national conversation.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>The Beer Summit series was an opportunity to start the conversation about having a black president. The fascinating thing about Barack Obama as a black president is that he&#39;s a symbol more than any other president. The summits explored the idea of his image and the visualization of a black man and his black family in the White House.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><img alt=\"\" data-caption=\"President Barack Obama, Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Sergeant James Crowley toast at the start of their meeting in the Rose Garden of the White House, July 30, 2009. Official White House Photo by Pete Souza\" data-rich-file-id=\"1921\" src=\"https://s3.amazonaws.com/chigal/rich/rich_files/rich_files/1921/original/beersummit.jpg\" /></p>\r\n\r\n<p>The series was also a way to talk about presidential libraries&ndash;how they&#39;re structured and how they work&mdash;What is a presidential library? Why do they exist? The summits were part education, part research. What is a library&mdash;what does it do? What is an archive and what does it do? What is a museum and what can it do in relation to African American history, the political future of that history, and the design of architecture and space? But really I think the idea of the project came from my interest in politics and art and finding a way to mold to those together.&nbsp;</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: Have you visited many presidential libraries?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ: </strong>No, I haven&rsquo;t and few people have. I visited John F. Kennedy&#39;s library in Boston and outside of the Lincoln Memorial that is the one pilgrimage site for Americans who want to go to presidential libraries. It&#39;s one that&rsquo;s close to a city center so it&#39;s easy to go to, and of course Kennedy was assassinated so it has a lot of residual power for Americans. Many presidential libraries are not in cities so they&rsquo;re difficult to visit.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: Like Lyndon B. Johnson&rsquo;s library on a ranch outside of Austin, Texas, where he was born.</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ:</strong> I would love to go out there.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN:</strong> <strong>What do you hope to see at Obama&#39;s presidential library?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ:</strong> I&#39;m not super invested in what actually is there in terms of the details. The most interesting thing Obama could do, I think, is to make the whole catalogue of his archives entirely searchable, placed underground on computer servers, and then build cheap public housing on top of it. That would be an interesting library. Or he could leave Jackson Park alone, right? To leave the park alone would be the most radical thing to do. Or fund free schooling and pay for teachers&rsquo; pensions to work at schools on the South Side of Chicago. Those are interesting public ideas that would be worth raising&nbsp;money towards.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: Versus preserving and shaping a&nbsp;legacy?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ: </strong>If Obama&nbsp;decided to build public housing then that would be shaping his legacy. If he decided to leave the park alone then that would be shaping his legacy, too. In terms of shaping legacy&mdash;those would be the most radical things.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>What I&rsquo;d hope to see is a way to have a library that&#39;s multi-narrative, that doesn&#39;t just have the perspective of his administration but also deals with the fact that we have a black president, who in the last year of this presidency had a very public protest movement called &lsquo;Black Lives Matter.&rsquo; How do you account for those things? I would also like to see a real reckoning with the way the United States deals with war and how Obama authorized bombs and drone strikes without any legal trials. But I don&#39;t see those things happening. I&rsquo;m less concerned with what&rsquo;s inside the library and more concerned with what artists are dealing with. I want to elevate artists.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: How did you select the artists that you&rsquo;re working&nbsp;with at the Hyde Park Art Center exhibition?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ: </strong>These are all people I knew relatively well, and they&#39;ve been talking about the subject for a few years. Aisha Cousins is one of the central artists in the exhibition because she&#39;s been thinking about Obama and his legacy as soon as he was elected.&nbsp;She&rsquo;s the organizing principle to the show, but all the artists have varying perspectives.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>One of the cool projects that Aisha Cousins does is called <em>The&nbsp;</em><em>Soulville Census</em>, which is an alternative to the United States Census. It&rsquo;s directed at African American populations and their relationships with the first family and being black. If you look at the census from 2010 there was space for African American, Negro, and Black. Those were the checkmark boxes for all people who identify as black.&nbsp;</p>\r\n\r\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img alt=\"\" data-caption=\"Aisha Cousins, &lt;i&gt;The Soulville Census&lt;/i&gt;. Photo: Tsubasa Berg. A volunteer poses as a census taker to engages a festival goer in &lt;i&gt;The Soulville Census&lt;/i&gt;, one of several short scores Cousins composed to document key experiences from the project year. The project engaged hundreds of black Brooklynites in exploring the language we use to describe blackness and how it impacts our understanding of the state of black America.\" data-rich-file-id=\"1922\" src=\"https://s3.amazonaws.com/chigal/rich/rich_files/rich_files/1922/original/4-artist-aisha-cousins-the-soulville-census-2015.jpg\" /></p>\r\n\r\n<p>There was some pushback from folks, because people got these things and thought, &quot;Negro? Who are those folks?&quot; And it was because the census does research, and they went to different populations around the United States and asked people if &#39;Negro&#39; was an appropriate word and enough people said, &quot;Yes,&quot; that they put it on there. But by 2010 it felt outdated, right? And they only do it every ten years, but regardless, it&#39;s still a small population to describe folks who might be from the Caribbean, from Canada. It doesn&#39;t actually account for diverse population inside the African American population within the United States. <em>The Soulville Census</em> that Aisha Cousins has done in Brooklyn is meant to take that one category and spread it out. She asks aspiration questions like, &ldquo;Do you describe Obama as black?&rdquo; because he&#39;s actually mixed race. Or &ldquo;How do you feel when you see Sasha and Malia&rsquo;s hair braided with little twists in them?&rdquo; They&rsquo;re not quantitative, they&#39;re more qualitative questions about how people feel. And the idea is they elicit more than a census would.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>Another key theme is prison populations. Obama was the first president to actually visit a federal prison. Billy McGuinness is working in the Cook County Jail and is taking photographs of artwork he&rsquo;s made with inmates and we&rsquo;ll display them in the gallery. This project has nothing to do explicitly with policy or Obama, but it references the fact that we have a large population of African American men in prisons. It&#39;s also a way to have that conversation without having to explicitly say things like, &ldquo;In 2015 the Justice Department under Obama stopped using federal private prisons to hold federal prison populations.&rdquo; I can say that but more interesting is there&#39;s still a large prison population, and here&rsquo;s a way that these guys can be humanized.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: Along with the work on display, are you organizing programming to accompany the exhibition?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ: </strong>Yes, there are three or four programs. Aisha Cousins has performance scores focused on Obama&rsquo;s life so we will be producing one of those scores on <a href=\"http://www.chicagogallerynews.com/calendar/super-spring-sunday--2\">May 21st at the official opening reception</a>. The piece is called <em>National Anthem</em>. It&rsquo;s two people singing the American national anthem and the black national anthem and alternating the stanzas. It&rsquo;s a really simple way of culling up W.E.B. DuBois&rsquo;s &ldquo;twoness&rdquo; of being torn asunder by competing narratives of black independent spirit and politics, and being an American imperial power&mdash;the feeling of wanting to be a part of and stand on the shoulders of the idea of American dream but also having a history that completely refutes the existence of that.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>I&rsquo;m also doing a program with <a href=\"http://www.chicagogallerynews.com/calendar/independent-black-politics-and-black-presidential-candidates-100-years-before-barack-obama\">Bruce Mouser on June 8</a>. He&rsquo;s a professor emeritus at University of Wisconsin-La Cross, and he&rsquo;s doing research on two African Americans who ran for president during the 1904 election. They ran under the independent party called National Negro Liberty Party. There are two black men, George Edwin Taylor, who ultimately ran in the 1904 race, and then William Thomas Scott. Bruce has done a tremendous job pulling together research of these two little known characters.</p>\r\n\r\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img alt=\"\" data-caption=\"Campaign poster for George E. Taylor, Presidential Candidate, National Liberty Party, U.S.A., 1904.\" data-rich-file-id=\"1923\" src=\"https://s3.amazonaws.com/chigal/rich/rich_files/rich_files/1923/original/taylorgeorge-2.jpg\" /></p>\r\n\r\n<p>Talking about black independent politics, if you look at the Obama t-shirts [that the artist Nate Young has collected and that will be included in the exhibition] usually you will see MLK, Kennedy, Obama or MLK, Malcolm X, Obama as part of tracing a legacy. But no one ever says George Edwin Taylor, William Thomas Scott, Carol Moseley Braun, Shirley Chisholm, and then Obama. And, of course, Carol Moseley Braun and Shirley Chisholm were black women who ran for president. And nationally! In a big way! But people don&#39;t actually know the history very well even though Shirley ran in 1972.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>There is something about independent black politics versus institutional embedded politics that Obama had. Obama was not running as an independent black character, he was running as a Democrat, and he was able to win on that platform. Shirley Chisholm did run as a Democrat but she was &ldquo;unbought and unbossed&rdquo; and firebranded and pissed off a lot of people. She was very sharp and way ahead of her time so she didn&#39;t get picked up as easily, and she also faced pushback from people like Jesse Jackson and other black politicians of the time who were also trying to think about their own political futures.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>The idea of a black president is not new, in fact we have been thinking about it for a long time. African Americans have been using the idea of a black president to build political power since 1904. The Civil War ended in 1877. There were civil rights bills that allowed African Americans to vote in 1871 and in 1882 leading up to the 1904 race. Not only were African Americans running in different offices in congress and school boards and whatnot all through the 1800s, but they were also being denied voting rights in various organizations throughout that entire time by the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. A lot of independent black politics is about choosing a side or running independently.&nbsp;</p>\r\n\r\n<p>It&rsquo;s important to hear from Bruce Mouser about Taylor and Scott who in 1904 were making a choice: Do we stick with the Republicans, which is the party of Abraham Lincoln and the party that gained our vote because they had some sympathies towards the plight of enslaved Africans? Or do we break away because those same Republicans, given their history were also not pushing back against Southern Democrats and what became the Jim Crow Laws? Bruce speaks to the story of these two men who decided that they were going to take the path of independent politics and create their own party.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>In the exhibition, there will also be videos of popular culture images of black presidents by Zachary Fabri. For example,&nbsp;there&rsquo;s a really great film called <em>Rufus Jones for President</em> starring Sammy Davis Junior and Ethel Waters. It was made in 1933 and is super racist but it was one of the first films with an all black cast, which was a big deal. In the film, Sammy Davis Jr. is a seven-year-old boy who falls asleep in Ethel Waters&rsquo; arms and dreams that he becomes president. The idea of having a black president isn&#39;t something that is new, its been actually gamed out over a long period of time.</p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>CGN: Zachary Fabri has been collecting these images and films?</strong></p>\r\n\r\n<p><strong>RJ: </strong>Yes, he&rsquo;s collected them. I think the earliest film is<em> Rufus Jones for President.&nbsp;</em>The idea of the black president precedes itself. Obama was preceded by these different ideas and versions. There is a reality and also a myth, and Obama&#39;s presidency was a weird experience of living for eight years through this mythical thing that no one expected, but of course has been really one of the most anticipated political presidents in the history of the country. It&rsquo;s been played out in movies, films and music for years. When you think about the history, it&rsquo;s not that surprising.</p>\r\n\r\n<p>The Presidential Library Project: Black Presidential Imaginary<em> opens Sunday, March 26 at the Hyde Park Art Center and is on view through July 2, 2017. The exhibition is curated by Ross Jordan, who is currently Curatorial Manager at the Jane Addams Hull House Museum.&nbsp;</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><em>Top image:&nbsp;Zachary Fabri, </em>Aureola (Black Presidents)<em>, set of 9, 2012, digital C prints, 20&quot; x 30&quot;</em></p>\r\n\r\n<p><span style=\"border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; text-indent: 20px; width: auto; padding: 0px 4px 0px 0px; text-align: center; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; line-height: 20px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-image: 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We spoke&nbsp;with five insiders about what excites them now&nbsp;and what they anticipate next.</p><p><br></p><p><em>The following preview is one of five conversations that appear in CGN's Fall 2026 magazine. To receive a copy of the print edition&nbsp;</em><a href=\"https://835ba3.myshopify.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>click here.</em></a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1789517637/noxz9olp47gfneafz8xg.jpg\"></p><p><br></p><h4><em>Nikko Washington –&nbsp;</em></h4><h4><em>Artist</em></h4><p><br></p><p>“I’m thrilled to further expand my artistic and design practice by introducing other mediums into the mix. I’m looking forward to watching the seasons change and devoting a lot of time in the studio as well. Fall/winter is my favorite time to create new works.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>I have an upcoming solo show with <a href=\"https://vsgcontemporary.com\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">VSG&nbsp;Contemporary</a> that I am excited about. The work will delve further into the topics of cultural mythology and how these tales and narratives have helped shape my worldview.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>Also, it wouldn’t be right if I left out my&nbsp;excitement for this upcoming season of Chicago sports.”</p><p><br></p><p><a href=\"https://www.nikkowashington.com\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Nikko Washington</a></p><p><br></p>","published_at":"2026-09-11 00:30:00","state":"published","slug":"anticipating-a-season-of-art-five-to-talk-to-nikko-washington","type":null,"meta_description":"","text":null,"created_at":"2026-09-16 00:13:58.216","updated_at":"2026-09-16 00:13:58.216","category_id":3,"highlighted":false,"searchable":"'2026':76B 'across':19B 'also':174B 'anticip':1A,60B 'appear':71B 'art':5A 'artist':39B,90B,98B 'behind':26B 'bring':41B 'cgn':73B 'chang':117B 'chicago':191B 'click':86B 'communiti':33B 'contemporari':146B 'convers':69B 'copi':81B 'creat':135B 'cultur':161B 'delv':155B 'design':100B 'devot':119B 'edit':85B 'excit':54B,150B,185B 'exhibit':18B 'expand':96B 'fall':12B,75B 'fall/winter':129B 'favorit':132B 'five':6A,50B,68B 'follow':63B 'forward':112B 'fresh':42B 'full':15B 'galleri':20B 'help':170B 'insid':51B 'introduc':103B 'left':182B 'look':111B 'lot':121B 'm':92B,110B 'magazin':77B 'mani':29B 'medium':105B 'midwest':25B 'mix':108B 'museum':22B 'mytholog':162B 'narrat':168B 'new':136B 'next':61B 'nikko':10A,88B,193B 'offer':13B 'one':66B 'peopl':30B 'perspect':43B 'practic':101B 'preview':64B 'print':84B 'public':46B 'receiv':79B 'right':179B 'scene':28B 'season':3A,116B,189B 'shape':171B 'show':143B 'slate':16B 'solo':142B 'spoke':48B 'sport':192B 'studio':126B 'support':38B 'tale':166B 'talk':8A 'thrill':93B 'throughout':23B 'time':123B,133B 'tireless':36B 'topic':159B 'upcom':141B,188B 'vsg':145B 'washington':11A,89B,194B 'watch':114B 'well':128B 'work':35B,137B,153B 'worldview':173B 'wouldn':176B","thumbnail":"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788406360/ujd84dhihjroxqjs9izj.jpg","editor_pick":true},{"id":13930,"title":"Andi Crist: The Art of The Pun","excerpt":null,"body":"<p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961823/s3lp0uull2s8mvd8funj.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist, </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Extension Cords</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, Glazed stoneware, chrome, Sizes vary 2021-present. Photo: Mikey Mosher</span></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong><em>This interview is part of CGN's Fall 2026 issue.&nbsp;</em></strong><strong style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51);\"><em style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51);\"><a href=\"https://chicagogallerynews.myshopify.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" style=\"color: rgb(51, 51, 51);\" target=\"_blank\">Purchase a copy or subscribe</a>.</em></strong></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961824/mghrpnghxd9j9ko2dsjt.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist</span></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>BY ALISON REILLY</p><p><br></p><p>Andi Crist’s warm, engaging demeanor is evident in the first few minutes of our conversation. Generous with her time and forthcoming in her observations, she cares deeply about building relationships through her art making. Crist grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, devoured art classes, wrote songs and played music in high school, and moved to Chicago to study visual art at Columbia College. In 2024, she received her MFA from the University of Illinois at Chicago. She is a woodworker, sculptor, ceramicist, and conceptual artist, and she teaches at Illinois Institute of Technology. We discussed her multidisciplinary practice, her experience working as an art handler, preparator, and fabricator, and how she thinks about labor, creativity, and value in the art world.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: You grew up in Birmingham, Alabama. How did that environment shape your point of view as an artist?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>Andi Crist:</strong> That’s such a funny question. Nobody’s ever really asked.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: Oh, really?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>Yeah, maybe because I never was super connected with the arts community down in Birmingham. I moved to Chicago in 2007, so it’s been 20 years since I lived in the South. I was definitely one of those art kids—one art credit was required in high school, and I graduated with like seven. I was surrounded by artists who had a big impact on me, because they were working artists. All my art teachers were trained in Alabama and then continued to teach and work in Alabama, which gave me this desire to try to expand my community outside of what I was familiar with.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: Do you identify as a Chicagoan?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>My family still lives in Alabama, and I go back every year. I love being in Alabama. Maybe now being in Chicago for almost 20 years, I identify as a southerner living in the city. I carry on the social qualities of a friendly southern person [laughs].&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN:</strong> <strong>You have a varied art practice</strong><strong style=\"color: rgb(71, 71, 71);\">—</strong><strong>woodwork, ceramics, mold making. What drew you to those types of fabrication methods and that type of art making?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC:</strong> My dad is a carpenter and a hobbyist woodworker, but his career was psychology, and my mom was a professor and an incredible craftswoman. I absorbed my mom’s model of creativity, which is to try a bunch of different things and not necessarily finish them but to try to learn as much as I can by just going for it. My practice over the years has become an exploration of conceptual elements of what makes art art and not just craft. Do you have to be a master craftsperson or a professional artist in order to make something that resonates with people?</p><p><br></p><p>I make a lot of work that references the mode of making and requires a variety of different media. I just finished teaching a ceramics production class where students learned how to produce molds, think about positives and negatives, and get into a level of production rather than just handicraft as a way to multiply their output.</p><p><br></p><p>I got into fabrication because I’ve always liked working with other artists. I have a background in theater and gallery work. I’m a voracious learner, and I like being able to share those skills with my community. Then I end up making work about that. It’s a self-feeding cycle.</p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961825/zzejqwibga5f5wk6einh.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist,&nbsp;</span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Artist’s Ladder</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, 2023.&nbsp;Photo: Jeff Perlman</span></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: Thinking about your background as an art handler and preparator</strong><strong style=\"color: rgb(59, 62, 65);\">—</strong><strong>how did you get to the point where you were making work about that experience?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>In 2010, right before I graduated from Columbia, I was living in a storefront in West Logan Square with my partner at the time. We started a gallery called Autotelic in the space and had to build it out using the worst tools with very minimal resources. Then we started curating shows there and that meant helping other artists figure out how to install their work in our unusual space. Eventually, I gained the reputation for knowing how to do that type of work. I started getting invited to work in museums and galleries.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>The Holocaust Museum was the first museum I worked at, and as difficult as that subject matter is, that experience was really important to me because I was learning more about the larger world of gallery work. As an artist working as a preparator, you’re straddling both sides of that space. You’re really seeing how the sausage is made. You’re hearing all the conversations about artists, curators, the process of exhibition making. There is a lot of information you can gather about the economics of the art world by just being the person that has the know-how to touch and handle artwork. Eventually that started feeding into my art practice because I wanted to make work that was contributing to a conversation around art as a type of job. It fueled a methodology of seeing everything in the world as the result of a long line of processes that required effort and thoughtfulness by many hands.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961826/uv5bysb5fbne30gr5czh.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist, </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Fair Warning</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, 2025.</span></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: The title of your recent exhibition at the Cleve Carney Museum—<em>Live, Laugh, Lo</em>—sorry, not <em>Live, Laugh, Love</em>—<em>Live, Laugh, Labor</em>.</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC:</strong> [Laughs] That’s what everybody does.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: I love the title—it’s perfect. You incorporate humor along with thoughtful critiques about labor and value in your work. What role does humor play? How does it help you connect with your audience?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC:</strong> One of my biggest criticisms of art with a capital A is how easily it can be overly intellectualized. I think that’s why I end up making a lot of work that references things that already exist or have some kind of real purpose. It’s important to give people a foothold so there’s an obvious place to board that train of thought. As an artist—maybe this is me getting into a sweeping argument about what artists should be—but I personally believe in intellectual accessibility. Humor is a swift way to drop defenses and allow people to come in without feeling like they are not getting the joke or not understanding. I like to make work that can hold both of those things at the same time—it’s funny on the surface level, it’s kind of cheeky, but there’s also another way to look at it that is intellectually clever. There is a joy in the attempt to “get it”. Like the satisfaction of grasping how a crossword puzzle actually works.</p><p><br></p><p>It’s also so much a part of my personality. I take myself seriously as an artist, but my ego isn’t at the heart of it. It’s really something that I do because I love to make things, and I love to connect with other people. My parents raised me on puns, creating those language relationships between things and people and space. Understanding a joke is the same way that we understand art, and while neither of my parents would consider themselves artists, they taught me how to think about art.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961828/gnotyfijabr7e15kb6hm.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist,&nbsp;</span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">69 Bananas</em></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: Your work, <em>Artist’s Ladder</em>, explores hierarchies, workplace cultures, and institutional values. What experiences shaped your reflections on these themes?</strong></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>AC:</strong> The ladder piece distinctly represents the complicated relationship between front of house, back of house, and the hierarchy of labor. Who is the artist in those relationships? How much does another person’s knowledge and expertise contribute to the success of another artist?</p><p><br></p><p>There are enormous, industrialized art practices out there, warehouses full of people making things, and those people are also artists. When you make work that involves other people, it’s important to acknowledge their contributions. I’ve had complicated interactions with other artists who are like, ‘Hey, do you want to collaborate with me on this thing?’ but really they just want me to make their idea. I made <em>Artist’s Ladder</em> while I was in grad school at UIC, and it really represented my relationship with a lot of other artists, because I could be an actual support structure for them. Then it turned into this absurd physical thing. It’s extremely overbuilt with inlaid racing stripes made of exotic hardwood, and a butcher’s block-style plaid top. It’s not really like an FU as much as it is asking for acknowledgement of my skills and the essential support structures that exist.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>CGN: I want to ask you about another piece, <em>Five O’Clock Somewhere</em>, a wool rug that resembles a children’s play mat. I work at a library, and it reminded me of rugs I see all the time. It’s a peaceful image of an office park with a large fountain surrounded by a parking lot. I’m curious why you chose a rug as the medium to depict that image.</strong></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong style=\"color: rgb(38, 38, 38);\">AC: </strong><span style=\"color: rgb(38, 38, 38);\">To me </span>the heart of that joke was that it was a landscape. I wanted it to be physically traversable. And that was, I don’t want to say controversial, but it was something that I had to talk about a lot.<span style=\"color: rgb(38, 38, 38);\"> </span>The critique of that work was the fact that I didn’t want to hang it on the wall and turn it into a tapestry. I really wanted it to be a rug that people could walk on. When I showed that work at Chicago Artists Coalition for the New City Breakout Artists show. There was a lot of pushback about having it on the floor and allowing people to walk on it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That, to me, was such an important conversation, because, in my mind, the fact that you could walk across it and traverse it was part of how I was thinking about the object. Rugs are utilitarian–they are floor coverings. When you make art that doesn’t do anything, you don’t get to participate in that part of the conversation.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I enjoy sparring around art like that. I am totally tickled by the pushback. The critique of display is exciting, and sorting through the politics of utilitarianism in art spaces is fun to me. And then—it was so crazy—we ended up showing it halfway on the wall and halfway on the ground.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961829/r1zylkwfw9rkw191skdl.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist, </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Five O’Clock Somewhere</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, on display at </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Live, Laugh, Labor: Thoughts on Usefulness and Other Myths</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\"> at The Cleve Carney Museum of Art, 2025.</span></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: Oh, wow.</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>I was like, this is the epitome of compromise! I had to build a structure so that it could hang that way safely.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>CGN: I would say just put it on the ground if that’s what you want to do. It’s interesting that there are still very fixed ideas about the way that art should be displayed.</strong></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>AC: </strong>That preparator part of it, that’s what I’m all about. I was having that conversation about what physically supports the work or what conceptually supports it in the way that it’s shown.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>CGN: Have you always been a writer? How do your art and writing practices work together?&nbsp;</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>I can’t say that I’m a writer, it’s probably the same way that it can feel weird to call yourself an artist. But I feel like I’ve always been relatively good at writing. The first time I ever did any kind of professional writing was contributing,&nbsp;a long time ago, to a website called eHow. The editors would send me a title, and then I would have to research how to do that thing. Then I would write out step-by-step instructions for how to do that.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>I think that’s how I had to make myself think through my conceptual practice—I had to do the research, coagulate that into some kind of document, and then I would have stream-of-consciousness conversations with myself. “Why are we interested in this? Why would we make it this way? What would I want to talk about if someone were to ask me about this?” It’s almost like I was pre-interviewing myself.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>I think the writing is just another way for me to process that idea before I put in all of the time and energy to actually accomplish it.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: What are you working on right now? What projects do you have coming up?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>The biggest project that I have right now is my house. My family and I suffered a major house fire on New Year’s Day. We’ve been displaced since then and are navigating rebuilding our house. It was a total loss.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961830/kekfqzf9f87fq48juogh.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist, </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Single-Use Fireplace</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, 2025. Photo: Mikey Mosher.</span></p><p><br></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>CGN: I’m so sorry to hear that.&nbsp;</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>Thank you. We’re all okay, but it’s been a really tumultuous year. I moved my studio into a storefront last summer, and so most of my, at least relatively recent, work is safe, and I still have all of my materials, but my home life is starting over. I just had my first full year at this space, and it’s got a little gallery built out in the front called Coming Soon. It’s beautiful with floor-to-ceiling windows on Division and Central Park. I’ve been inviting people into the space to try things out.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>After teaching the ceramics class, I came into a bunch of nice slip casting molds, and I’m making some really playful, weird, ceramic stuff. I want to be open and not put too much pressure on myself. Having a big studio by myself is very expensive, so it’s easy to want to make it feel like it’s worth it. But if for now all I can do is make it a resource for other people, then that will be the thing I do. Be less selfish, but more selfish with my time. Saying I can’t do that, or I don’t want to do that. It’s not my nature to say no—I’m such a yes man. I’m learning how to be a yes man for myself.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: That makes sense after going through something so traumatic.</strong></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><strong>AC:</strong> I have an amazing support system. Our friends started a GoFundMe. It was incredible. I’m so humbled and floored by how held I felt by Chicago. I can’t help but throw a little shout out to my Chicago people. I can see how people’s lives get totally ruined by this kind of tragedy. I feel so lucky. Chicago definitely showed its love back.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>CGN: For your project Coming Soon, are you bringing in other artists?</strong></p><p><br></p><p><strong>AC: </strong>My philosophy is that I want to be involved as little as possible. I am thinking about it more as a hosted than curated space. I’m actively soliciting proposals or ideas for workshops, meetings, book clubs—I’m down for making it a resource, whatever that means. I don’t want to over-think it, I want it to be an intuitive and organic thing, which is why I call it Coming Soon—it can be a placeholder for anything. It’s exciting. Taking my hands off the reins is a good exercise for me.</p><p><br></p><p><a href=\"https://www.andicrist.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">andicrist.com</a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788961831/gno5dhliwfnzpuaim78s.jpg\"></p><p><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Andi Crist, </span><em style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">Extension Cords</em><span style=\"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);\">, Glazed stoneware, chrome, Sizes vary 2021-present. 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We spoke&nbsp;with five insiders about what excites them now&nbsp;and what they anticipate next.</p><p><br></p><p><em>The following preview is one of five conversations that appear in CGN's Fall 2026 magazine. To receive a copy of the print edition&nbsp;</em><a href=\"https://835ba3.myshopify.com/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\"><em>click here.&nbsp;</em></a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><img src=\"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1789516769/izokunnmrufdyjbjnypk.jpg\"></p><h4><em>Debra Kerr –&nbsp;</em></h4><h4><em>CEO, Intuit Art Museum</em></h4><p><br></p><p>“Intuit Art Museum’s renovated, expanded spaces give audiences the chance to connect with art through daily art-making, third Thursday Art After Work, group Slow Looks designed to provide a mindful experience with a single work and upcoming conversations with sculptor Bill Brady (Oct. 3) and Dr. Mary Trent (Oct. 15), who curated our current exhibition on the role of scrapbook-making in Henry Darger’s art.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>On view is the thought-provoking <em>Monumental: The Sculpture of Dr. Charles Smith</em>, which encourages guests to consider the lack of historical representation of African Americans and Black people in America. Dr. Smith’s memorials champion Black history and stories of everyday life he sees missing in mainstream narratives.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>This fall we’re opening an exhibition of paintings by Karla Wong, an artist who immigrated from Oaxaca and who explores themes of life and death, gender identity and self-discovery.”</p><p><br></p><p><a href=\"https://art.org\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Intuit Art Museum</a></p>","published_at":"2026-09-09 00:30:00","state":"published","slug":"anticipating-a-season-of-art-five-to-talk-to-debra-kerr","type":null,"meta_description":"","text":null,"created_at":"2026-09-15 23:59:29.662","updated_at":"2026-09-15 23:59:29.662","category_id":3,"highlighted":false,"searchable":"'15':146B '2026':76B '3':140B 'across':19B 'african':189B 'america':195B 'american':190B 'anticip':1A,60B 'appear':71B 'art':5A,92B,95B,108B,112B,116B,163B,247B 'art-mak':111B 'artist':39B,227B 'audienc':102B 'behind':26B 'bill':137B 'black':192B,201B 'bradi':138B 'bring':41B 'ceo':90B 'cgn':73B 'champion':200B 'chanc':104B 'charl':176B 'click':86B 'communiti':33B 'connect':106B 'consid':182B 'convers':69B,134B 'copi':81B 'curat':148B 'current':150B 'daili':110B 'darger':161B 'death':239B 'debra':10A,88B 'design':122B 'discoveri':245B 'dr':142B,175B,196B 'edit':85B 'encourag':179B 'everyday':206B 'excit':54B 'exhibit':18B,151B,220B 'expand':99B 'experi':127B 'explor':234B 'fall':12B,75B,215B 'five':6A,50B,68B 'follow':63B 'fresh':42B 'full':15B 'galleri':20B 'gender':240B 'give':101B 'group':119B 'guest':180B 'henri':160B 'histor':186B 'histori':202B 'ident':241B 'immigr':229B 'insid':51B 'intuit':91B,94B,246B 'karla':224B 'kerr':11A,89B 'lack':184B 'life':207B,237B 'look':121B 'magazin':77B 'mainstream':212B 'make':113B,158B 'mani':29B 'mari':143B 'memori':199B 'midwest':25B 'mind':126B 'miss':210B 'monument':171B 'museum':22B,93B,96B,248B 'narrat':213B 'next':61B 'oaxaca':231B 'oct':139B,145B 'offer':13B 'one':66B 'open':218B 'paint':222B 'peopl':30B,193B 'perspect':43B 'preview':64B 'print':84B 'provid':124B 'provok':170B 'public':46B 're':217B 'receiv':79B 'renov':98B 'represent':187B 'role':154B 'scene':28B 'scrapbook':157B 'scrapbook-mak':156B 'sculptor':136B 'sculptur':173B 'season':3A 'see':209B 'self':244B 'self-discoveri':243B 'singl':130B 'slate':16B 'slow':120B 'smith':177B,197B 'space':100B 'spoke':48B 'stori':204B 'support':38B 'talk':8A 'theme':235B 'third':114B 'thought':169B 'thought-provok':168B 'throughout':23B 'thursday':115B 'tireless':36B 'trent':144B 'upcom':133B 'view':165B 'wong':225B 'work':35B,118B,131B","thumbnail":"https://res.cloudinary.com/dfafo598z/image/upload/v1788406120/wgkj5rkg0rq42watsxad.jpg","editor_pick":true}]}